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Post by skycheney on Mar 16, 2010 10:18:39 GMT -5
Neat boat. I like the fireplace.
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mikep
Prefers Maryanne to Ginger
Posts: 81
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Post by mikep on Mar 17, 2010 1:10:40 GMT -5
Wow, Mike....I dont know if I would start working on it or have nighmares about the rust. Believe me I understand how you feel. I came into Bill's project last year and after seeing the before pictures and the work as it gets done you really began to appreciate the beauty of the ship and you just know that she will be greatful for what you have done. She is looking very good and I hope you have some one that will help you like I help Bill. And this year we get to bear the fruits of our labors and show her off. You, like Bill and others, are a true yachtsman and have a deep and true love for your ship. Keep us all updated on the prgress and thank you for sharing the pictures with us.....ppat Thanks for the encouragement.... My nightmares started during the survey..... and I'am so dumb I still made the purchase. I just didn't know the level repairs & upgrading required, and being a smart-ass thought I was smarter than everyone else. The only good news is my better half really likes the boat, but I am on the hook for all the work. So if you are looking to come West.... I know where you can find a few projects. ;D
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Post by 34Hatt on Mar 17, 2010 14:26:40 GMT -5
Wow, Mike....I dont know if I would start working on it or have nighmares about the rust. Believe me I understand how you feel. I came into Bill's project last year and after seeing the before pictures and the work as it gets done you really began to appreciate the beauty of the ship and you just know that she will be greatful for what you have done. She is looking very good and I hope you have some one that will help you like I help Bill. And this year we get to bear the fruits of our labors and show her off. You, like Bill and others, are a true yachtsman and have a deep and true love for your ship. Keep us all updated on the prgress and thank you for sharing the pictures with us.....ppat Thanks for the encouragement.... My nightmares started during the survey..... and I'am so dumb I still made the purchase. I just didn't know the level repairs & upgrading required, and being a smart-ass thought I was smarter than everyone else. The only good news is my better half really likes the boat, but I am on the hook for all the work. So if you are looking to come West.... I know where you can find a few projects. ;D O.K I am I read you were redoing a steel hulled wood top boat. I just saw 3 different boats which one are you doing??? With any Rehab Its a good thing the Wife is into it other wise it get real expensive! Those Lawyers and divorce court are not cheap
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mikep
Prefers Maryanne to Ginger
Posts: 81
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Post by mikep on Mar 17, 2010 19:16:46 GMT -5
O.K I am I read you were redoing a steel hulled wood top boat. I just saw 3 different boats which one are you doing??? With any Rehab Its a good thing the Wife is into it other wise it get real expensive! Those Lawyers and divorce court are not cheap [/quote] My boat in this thread is the Defever, the other 2 are not mine just some examples of boats in the same yard. Truth be known I am redoing two big boats; a Hatt 53' MY, Defever 68' LRC, and a 32' Arena Craft off-shore. I really don't consider the work on the Hatt 53 MY a redo, more of a rebuild and maintenance upgrade. Trans, shafts, cuttless bearings, rudder bearings and some general cosmetics. The 32' Arena Craft is a 1975 race boat play-toy (built by the famed Dan Arena of 40's & 50's unlimited hydro era) that sits unfinished (repainted, new twin Chevy's and TRS drives) in a tent in our back yard waiting for me to drop in the motors. It will most likely go to one of the kids assuming someone shows an interest. The big "oh shit" work is on the DeFever; because of her 4000nm range I was intending to use her as an Alaska boat, then go south to the Caribbean some day, then sell her when done. The Hatt was going to be a keeper for use on the west coast. This was the plan, then along came Oct '08 and everything changed. Now I am stuck with 3 boats all on the hard with limited (read no) resources to spread around. I am now back at work so to speak and as you might guess no more time to do the fun stuff. So my conclusion is I can start a project, but never finish it. However, in between all this we did get my mother in-law's 1956 21' Arena Craft Barracuda completely restored, so there is hope. I am sure it's more than you wanted to know.... sorry for the long winded answer. ps. my wife likes it because it keeps me out of the bars at night...
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Post by banned on Mar 17, 2010 21:04:29 GMT -5
It's been a love-hate project. She'll be a real offshore boat if I ever "geterdone". We are still working on her, ran out of money; recently found some part time work so it's time again to get back at it. The hull is steel and the house is wood; best or worst of both construction approaches. The top deck is completed, all new wood ~ 700 sq' (right down to the deck beams in some cases) and epoxy coated. The main deck is all steel, all the rust has been removed, now trying to figure out what to do for a deck surface. Removed the old teak decks and plywood under layers, but don't want to replace it with wood over the main steel surface. But, still need to raise the entire deck surface about 1". I just don't want to drill and screw wood to the steel; too big a chance for rust and leaks. Thought about using a stud-gun and through-bolting marine-ply, followed by epoxy and paint. Even thought about using thin-set, followed by epoxy and paint, or a Rhino-liner spray-on. All ideas are most welcome.... Help....... mp Here's what we've done to cover a steel deck with wood. First blast the steal and coat it with with a silicate epoxy like Devoe Bars Rust #235. You want a coating that's an anti corrosive but it can't be a tar or coal tar type epoxy because adhesives won't stick to it. Then I would cut the wood to shape and lay it down in a moisture cure urethane adhesive like Bosticks Best flooring adhesive. Fasten it just enough to pull it down into the adhesive. I would use stainless machine screws 1/4 20 thread. Just use 2 drills one with a 5/16 bit and one with a 1/4 20 tap. Use trichlorethylene ( CRC brake cleaner red can) for a drilling fluid. It works great and won't contaminate like an oil based fluid. You don't have to double drill the screw will push through the 5/16 hole in the wood. I would coat the underside of the wood with the 235 also. Sounds like a lot of work but you have to be careful if you don't get it right the deck will rust and push the wood right off and that just becomes a big mess. Brian
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mikep
Prefers Maryanne to Ginger
Posts: 81
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Post by mikep on Mar 17, 2010 23:38:48 GMT -5
Brian,
Thanks for the insight. The good news is the decks were painted with red lead, resulting no significant rust after 37 years of use. The orig deck was teak, underside coated with Dolfonite, followed by plywood and Dolfonite, and screwed to the steel deck for a total thickness of 1.5" thick. We have done as you suggested, the decks have 3 coats of Ameron/Devoe 235. Your point about Bostick is a very good one. My orig. plan was to cut marine ply to fit, epoxy coat with CPES (it'll make Smith & Co happy) and bed it down with Liquid Nails. However I like Bostick better. As for the screws I just don't want to drill through the deck, hence the idea of using a stud gun; but it will a pain to do and most likely over kill if we use Bostick Adhesive. But I like your drill and tap approach, its easier than using studs, locating them, then drilling and counter sinking each one. I get tired just writing it, let along doing the work.
My deck has a 3" wide trough that runs the length of the boat to direct water run-off through the scuppers. How do you handle the end grain wood edge that runs along the gunnel? Do you seal it with Bostick or a two part polysulfide? I would appreciate your recommendations. tx, mike
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Post by 34Hatt on Mar 18, 2010 7:17:06 GMT -5
Hey MikeP Thanks for clearing that up Wow. Sorry it didn't work out on schedule like you planned but that sure is one big plate full If it helps to know it sure did make me feel better about my list Lots of luck those big project are not for most people takes a special person to pull them off. Hang in there! Dan
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Post by banned on Mar 18, 2010 9:41:00 GMT -5
Brian, Thanks for the insight. The good news is the decks were painted with red lead, resulting no significant rust after 37 years of use. The orig deck was teak, underside coated with Dolfonite, followed by plywood and Dolfonite, and screwed to the steel deck for a total thickness of 1.5" thick. We have done as you suggested, the decks have 3 coats of Ameron/Devoe 235. Your point about Bostick is a very good one. My orig. plan was to cut marine ply to fit, epoxy coat with CPES (it'll make Smith & Co happy) and bed it down with Liquid Nails. However I like Bostick better. As for the screws I just don't want to drill through the deck, hence the idea of using a stud gun; but it will a pain to do and most likely over kill if we use Bostick Adhesive. But I like your drill and tap approach, its easier than using studs, locating them, then drilling and counter sinking each one. I get tired just writing it, let along doing the work. My deck has a 3" wide trough that runs the length of the boat to direct water run-off through the scuppers. How do you handle the end grain wood edge that runs along the gunnel? Do you seal it with Bostick or a two part polysulfide? I would appreciate your recommendations. tx, mike I would not use marine ply I'd use HDO plywood typical used for re use able concrete forms. This stuff has a phenolic bonded to both sides and it's going to hold up better than marine ply much cheaper also. With that you can skip epoxy coating the bottom side just sand it a little so the adhesive sticks. The top side will finish better and easier also. I would seal the edges with West epoxy. Don't use the Bostick to fill the edges 5200 is best for that. For me the stud gun is a bad idea because your going to have to line up and locate the holes in the ply and then your going to have a nut and washer to countersink on top. I just don't think it's worth the trouble. If you drill and tap you can set it down in one operation and as long as you dip the SS screws in 5200 or bostick I'm not seeing that as a potential leak or trouble spot.
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mikep
Prefers Maryanne to Ginger
Posts: 81
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Post by mikep on Mar 19, 2010 1:02:41 GMT -5
Brian, Thanks for the insight. The good news is the decks were painted with red lead, resulting no significant rust after 37 years of use. The orig deck was teak, underside coated with Dolfonite, followed by plywood and Dolfonite, and screwed to the steel deck for a total thickness of 1.5" thick. We have done as you suggested, the decks have 3 coats of Ameron/Devoe 235. Your point about Bostick is a very good one. My orig. plan was to cut marine ply to fit, epoxy coat with CPES (it'll make Smith & Co happy) and bed it down with Liquid Nails. However I like Bostick better. As for the screws I just don't want to drill through the deck, hence the idea of using a stud gun; but it will a pain to do and most likely over kill if we use Bostick Adhesive. But I like your drill and tap approach, its easier than using studs, locating them, then drilling and counter sinking each one. I get tired just writing it, let along doing the work. My deck has a 3" wide trough that runs the length of the boat to direct water run-off through the scuppers. How do you handle the end grain wood edge that runs along the gunnel? Do you seal it with Bostick or a two part polysulfide? I would appreciate your recommendations. tx, mike I would not use marine ply I'd use HDO plywood typical used for re use able concrete forms. This stuff has a phenolic bonded to both sides and it's going to hold up better than marine ply much cheaper also. With that you can skip epoxy coating the bottom side just sand it a little so the adhesive sticks. The top side will finish better and easier also. I would seal the edges with West epoxy. Don't use the Bostick to fill the edges 5200 is best for that. For me the stud gun is a bad idea because your going to have to line up and locate the holes in the ply and then your going to have a nut and washer to countersink on top. I just don't think it's worth the trouble. If you drill and tap you can set it down in one operation and as long as you dip the SS screws in 5200 or bostick I'm not seeing that as a potential leak or trouble spot. I like your idea to use HDO, never thought about it, but given its construction it makes perfect sense. Regarding the screws, after having thought more about it, you guys have convinced me that I am over doing it for no real long term benefit. Esp that in another 30 years I most likely won't care, if I am lucky enough to be here. The deck will either be finished with epoxy and cloth, or teak epoxied to the HDO. It depends on the cost of teak vs a decent epoxied coated and finished surface. Any idea as to what the HDO plys are glued with... is it the same as the phenolic surface?
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mikep
Prefers Maryanne to Ginger
Posts: 81
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Post by mikep on Mar 19, 2010 22:51:49 GMT -5
Hey MikeP Thanks for clearing that up Wow. Sorry it didn't work out on schedule like you planned but that sure is one big plate full If it helps to know it sure did make me feel better about my list Lots of luck those big project are not for most people takes a special person to pull them off. Hang in there! Dan Dan... yep, it's a plate full all right. In this case "special person" means man was I dumb.... really bit off more than I can chew this time.... however "I'll endeavor to persevere". mp ;D
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